nature. and the whales followed that trail out. killer whales get a bad rap. it's probably the name, but this is a pretty amazing and wonderful story. thanks so much for joining us. "piers morgan tonight" is next. tonight another school another shooting. where will it end? >> the shooter had numerous round of shotgun shells, 12 gauge shotgun. >> what will the white house do? >> even if what we do only saves one life it makes sense. >> i'll talk to gabby giffords' husband, mark kelly. he's a gun owner and defending of the second amendment. he wants to stop the slaughter. >> elect smart people that should be able to work out the issues. they neglected to do it. >> also we'll meet the man who says i'm off the rails when it comes to gun control. gun violence taking on america.

attorney mark robbins. you might be surprised to hear what he says. this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. vice president joe biden says his gun task force will have a set of recommendations on the president's desk by tuesday. but that doesn't mean there's a consensus yet. listen to this from the nra after today's white house meeting "we were disappointed with how little this meeting had to do with keeping our children safe and how much it had to do with an agenda to attack the second amendment. we will not allow law abiding gun owners to be blamed for the acts of criminals and madmen." that's where the nra stands. now we'll remind you exactly where i stand on guns. i'm in favor of a nation-wide ban on military style semiautomatic assault weapons and high capacity magazines. i want to close the gun show loopholes and require private dealers to run background checks on all buyers at gun shows and see president obama for increasing mental health funding

for all americans who need it. meanwhile another shooting in california. a 16-year-old who said he was bull lid attempted murder. took aim and hit one student in taft high school. he then aimed specifically at another classmate but missed. our reporter is live with the latest. kyung, every time you hear these stories break now, a shudder comes with it because of what happened at sandy hook. what do we know about what happened here? >> reporter: we're learning actually a little bit more. police officers just briefed us, piers, within the last hour or so. what they're telling us is that the 16-year-old shooter actually planned this, began the planning of it last night. he took the shotgun from his home, the home he's living in. it belongs to his brother, his 19-year-old brother. and the atf right now are tracking the exact registration of the shotgun. he then got the rounds. he went to bed, he knew that he would come to school late, slip in through a side door. police say they have video of him entering the school. he went into his classroom,

directly to those two boys who he says he tells police who were bullying him. and he aimed at both of them, striking one of them. i want to show you now a picture of the teacher in that classroom. because what stopped it? it was this man. this teacher, ryan heber. what he did in addition to the counselor at the school, they convinced the boy to put down the gun. and that, piers, is what ended all of this. >> do we think that he had a very specific set of targets, or was he stopped from being more indiscriminate? >> reporter: very specific targets. the police say he told them he had two specific boys he was targeting today. we're hearing from parents and teachers they felt this boy had a troubled past. that they knew him from last year having a hit list. a boy who was bullied. he wrote down the list of popular kids in the schools, primarily jocks who he didn't like. he had a hit list, kids he

wanted to kill. and that's what got him in trouble with the school last year. a lot of the parents telling me, piers, they were very surprised to hear when all this was happening today that this boy was actually back in school. >> did they have any armed security at the school? >> reporter: this is a very interesting point. they normally do. a taft police officer is normally assigned to this high school every single day. before, during and after school. today he couldn't make it here. we've had very bad snow in the central california region. and so he couldn't get here. so there was no armed police guards. now, i did ask the police chief here, would it have made a difference if that armed police officer was on the campus premises like he normally is? and the police officer, the police chief says it would have made no difference today. the entire police department, he says, was able to arrive within 60 seconds. they had an incredibly fast response time. and it was the words of the teacher, the words of the teacher that ended this.

and that's what they are saying that, it was absolutely vital that this teacher was able to be brave, able to distract this kid so that the other kids could get away, and then convince this boy to put down the weapon. >> he sounds like a real hero. kyung, thank you very much indeed. our next guest is a gun owner and supporter of the second amendment. mark kelly's wife, former congresswoman gabrielle giffords was nearly killed in a that appalling shooting in tucson a few years ago. americans responsible solutions, mark kelly joins us now. mark, welcome back. i always think of you and gabby and other victims of these shootings when there's a new shooting. and it flashes up on screen. what goes through your mind? what did you think when you heard another school shooting today? >> well, just like you, piers, i often think about what happened to gabby. what happened here a little over two years ago and how horrific an event that was. but now i also think about what happened in newtown. and you know, we certainly can't

allow ourselves to continue down this road where this happens almost now as a regular occurrence. >> and the problem it seems to me, you have the nra today coming out utterly dede -- defiant as normal. not interesting in any discussion about gun control whatsoever. what is your reaction to that? >> you know, i was optimistic that after today's meeting in the white house that there would be some statement that they could find some common ground. gabby and i like you said we're gun owners. strong supporters of the second amendment. and i think we're with a large part of american society that realizes there's a problem and realizes that we can come up with some common sense solutions to address this terrible condition we have in the united states. >> one of the bosses of the nra was on wolf blitzer earlier. let's listen to what he had to say. >> you guys don't agree with

them. >> we knew going into this meeting what the president's position on so-called assault weapon ban is. the same position he's taken for years. these are not new positions. the vice president had said we do this with an open mind. but at the meeting he said no, we've already made up our mind on that. no, there's not going to be an agreement on that. in a sense they were checking a box. they were able to say we've met with the nra. we've met with the people that are strong second amendment supporters. that doesn't mean that there isn't an area for agreement. >> david keene there president of the nra. the point, mark, it's just -- it's arrogance and it's dangerous arrogance. all the nra spokesmen i see out there, none of them want to entertain any form of gun restrictions whatsoever. they're not interested. doesn't matter how bad the scale of the atrocity is. if you try and seau should you are the ones who are unpatriotic, unamerican, attacking the second amendment.

>> well you know, i think gabby and i, i don't think you can get more american than the two of us. i flew of us. i flew in combat in operation desert storm and 39 combat missions over iraq and kuwait. she is a former member of congress from the western district and a gun owner who supports the second a mendment, but on assault weapons and high capacity magazines and background checks, we differ with the nra leadership. a lot of our positions on this subject are much in line with the nra membership. >> i think that's true and a lot of people who are with the nra or affiliated to it feel uneasy after massacres like sandy hook. i want to play an interview that is being watched by over five million people and gone viral. some people find it entertaining. i found it terrifying. let's listen to what he had to

say. >> i'm here to tell you, 1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms. doesn't matter how many lemons you get out there on the street begging to have their guns taken. we will not relinquish them. that's why you will fail and no matter how much problem ganda, the republic will rise again. >> the thing that concerned me was the scale of the vitriol. the violence and the rhetoric. putting aside the ridiculous side to him, i found it very disturbi ing disturbing. he has 50 guns that guy and a huge audience. radio stations carry his show and the internet and people believe that stuff. >> you know, i think i lost some of my hearing in my right here listening to that. i had to pull it out a little bit there. he's got a business and an

audience and i think his audience expects that out of him. he is certainly on one side of this issue. i don't think a lot of the country is with him with that. i watched it several times and it was very heated on his end. >> i also interviewed larry pratt from the gun owners. >> your solution if you were there in that meeting would be to arm every school, every church, every hospital, everywhere that members of public can be. >> you certainly would want to encourage people who are qualified to carry a concealed firearm to do so in a school zone. right now that is illegal. >> that's really what they want. almost all the ones i have talked to, more guns lisz crime

thing. they want to fill every public place that have more people to have more guns around because it makes it safer. >> i don't agree with is that. by having more guns you will be safer. gabby and i think you have the right to protect yourself in your home and the right to listen that the solution would be to put an armed guard in every school. it doesn't resonate well with me. i have flown airplanes and been shot at multiple occasions and it's chaos. i have friends who were members of seal team 6 and what they think about the armed guard at the front of a school walking in with an assault rifle with a high capacity magazine. you know what they think? it's a ridiculous idea. these things happen very fast. in that case i don't think an armed security guard in the school would slow one of these guys down. it's not a good solution.

do you put somebody in a treater and a museum and a sports stadium. where does it end? >> also if you go back to what happened to gabby on that day, there was somebody legally armed. a 24-year-old man and he didn't match. i suppose he could have done it, but is that the answer and is that helpful in that situation? >> there was a man in walgreens next to the safeway that came out when he heard the shooting and pulled out a firearm and nearly shot the man who was involved in taking down the gunman. that was almost a horrific massacre followed by a horrific accident. it didn't happen. in the case of mr. loughner, he had a magazine with 32 rounds and another in the chamber. he unloaded all of those in a matter of seconds. about 15 seconds. if he had a 10-round magazine and could have been potentially,

but if he was taken down after unloading ten rounds in a magazine, there would be other people that died that day that would be alive today and one would have been christina taylor greene born on 9/11 and didn't live to see her 10th birthday. she was killed with a shot after the 10th round. >> when are asked for a reason why you would want an ar 15, he cited his daughter who was in the military and it's the nearest thing to a military rifle in civilian terms and she likes to use it on ranges and so on. what do you say to people in that position? >> certainly there a let of options. for people who like to target shoot or hunt, there other options other than assault weapons. piers, i went hunting over thanksgiving with a friend of mine on his rarnch in texas.

the magazine held six rounds. i put two in. not even six. to have a high capacity magazine or assault rifle, these are made to kill a lot of people very quickly. they are made for the military. general mcchrystal said it best. he doesn't want his own kids around guns like this. he wants his soldiers to have weapons like this. >> the very specific campaign on this show is similar to what we are-ing from the president and joe biden. as you feel and gabby feels towards these assault weapons and yet there is an extreme resistance from the nra to where we are talking about that. what is your message? >> you know, i would like to sit down with the nra and talk to them about this. i thought about joining the nra at one point. i think they do a lot of great things. most members are very

responsible gun owners. i would like to talk to them about what does their membership feel and maybe we could come to a common sense solution on some of these problems. we won't agree on everything, but this is just happening way too frequently and we can't have another 20 first graders murdered this this country. it's enough. >> the most spiriting thing to me and i concur with you and i'm sure many nra members are law-abiding decent americans and i have no desire to infringe their rights to defend themselves at home or hunt or shoot for sport. that's not what this is about. having said that, 100,000 new members have joined since sandy hook. we have seen record sales in america through december since sandy hook of ar 15-style weapons and ammunition. i look at that kind of statistic and i despair.

>> yeah. it's not a good situation. more assault rifles on the street and more high capacity magazines. those issues needed to be addressed and also one thing we need is a serious look at a universal background check. it is very easy in this country for a criminal or someone mentally ill to get a weapon. the segment to have a form of mental ill nchs. we need to identify them and get them treatment. if we do those things, common sense things, we are not going to stop every one, but i think we can stop some of them. >> terrific job, mark, in keeping this on the agenda. i congratulate you on the initiative with gabby. there is a financial and political power to the gun rights lobby which has to be at least challenge and competed

with and you are well on the way to doing that and i applaud you for that. >> thank you, piers. americans for a responsible solution will focus on coming up with solutions and trying to get members to pass gun violence legislation. we plan to educate constituents and try to work with members on both sides of the aisle like gabby did in congress to do something about this issue. >> my best as always to gabby and thank you very much for your time. it has been a fascinating interview. you are exactly what the gun rights lobby don't want to hear from. you are a gun owner and support the second amendment and so is your wife who was shot in the head and you don't want to take away your rights. that's why what you say is so powerful. thank you for joining us. >> glad you didn't get deported last week. >> thank you very much. so am i. thank you. >> a man said i am off the rails

with my stand on guns and surprising things to say about the toll of gun violence in america.

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there is nothing that has gone to the heart of the matter more than the visual image you have of 6-year-old kids riddled, not shot with a stray bullet, but riddled, riddled with bullet holes in their classroom. the public demands we speak to it. >> strong words from vice president biden who heads the task force on guns. my next guest said i am off the rails on guns in america. author of bullies. why am i off the rails? >> honestly, piers, you have been a bullo this issue. i watch your show and i have seen what you tend to do is demonize people who differ from you politically by standing on the graves of the children in sandy hook and saying they don't

care about the dead kids and if they did, we agree with you on policy. we can have a political conversation about rights and risks and rewards of the different policies and what we don't need to do is demonize people about being unfeeling. >> how dare you accuse me of standing on their graves. how dare you. >> you have done it repeatedly. >> hour dare you. >> you keep saying if they disagree with you politically, this is a violation of what happened in sandy hook. i really would like to hear your policy prescriptions for what we should do about guns. you brought the second amendment. you can read it. it's the constitution. explain what you would do about guns that would have prevented what happened in sandy hook. if you do what you do in the uk which is ban all guns and we can

have a discussion. >> i made it clear what i want to do which is what mark kelly wants to do. rather than address your comments to me about standing on the graves of children of sandy hook, you can address them to mark kelly because he agrees with everything i have been saying. he feels the same as does his wife. they respect the second amendment of the constitution and don't want to take away anybody's right to defend himself. >> they're want to take away certain types of guns. >> assault weapons with magazines like we saw at aurora and sandy hook of unleashing a ridiculous amount of bullets. >> i have seen you and mark kelly talk about it. the vast majority of murders committed with guns are not with assault weapons, but hand guns. are you willing to ban hand guns. >> don't you care about the kids in chicago as much as sandy hook? why don't you want to ban hand

guns. >> let me ask you this. what was the weapon used in the movie theater? >> it was an assault rifle. >> what was used in the oregon shopping mall. >> a assault rifle. >> sandy hook? >> assault rifle. >> what was used in the incident around christmas when the firemen were murdered? >> and bought illegally, that was an assault rifle. >> that's a good reason. you can smirk at me and laugh me and accuse me of standing on the graves of dead children, but that and is why people like me and mark kelly and gabrielle giffords want the assault rifles removed. >> that are doesn't rationalize. >> you don't understand why we want to remove the killing machines from the hands of young men? >> be consistent.

if you are worried about the removal of killing machines, we should talk about a blank et gun ban. you say -- >> why is it about left or right? why is it here? >> we can talk about britain in a second. it's about left or right here is because the right believes the basis for the second amendment and they believe in it. the basis is not really about self defense and hunting, but resistance to government tyranny. >> which tyranny are you fearing? >> the tyranny rising in the next 50 to 100 years. the fact that my grandparents and great grandparents didn't fear that is why they are ashes in europe. this leftist revisionist history where there is never fear of democracy -- >> just to clarify, the answer to sandy hook as it was to aurora and gabrielle giffords and com um bine and virginia tech is do nothing? >> that's not my position.

we have to calibrate laws that are designed to get guns out of the hands of bad people and keep guns in the hands of good people. >> how do do you that? >> one of the ways is by better screening for mental illness. >> was adam lanza's mother a good person? >> i don't know. she was responsible with her guns. >> anything to suggest she was not a good person? so by this criteria, of the good people should be allowed the guns and the bad people shouldn't, she would have been allowed the guns. >> she was an irresponsible person. she didn't keep the guns locked up. we are talking about laws we can agree on them. >> then she becomes a bad person. >> it's not morally good or bad. >> you set the criteria of good or bad. >> i should have said irresponsible to responsible. >> let's take a break and talk more about this. we don't agree. ever.

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this is ben shapiro, the author of bullies. do you believe that if you had an assault weapon ban, statistics prove you can dry up the supply of these guns and make them less accessible to criminals. >> i don't know. let's assume that's the case and you can make them less accessible. the question remains and i'm waiting for an answer from the left. why don't you want to ban hand guns. if you want to solve the problem

in america, go after all the guns. why not stop at assault rifles. >> i believe in the americans's right under the second amendment to defend themselves with a hand gun or pistol. >> most of the murders are committed with the pistols. >> as i staubed, the last four mass shooting. >> adam lanza had the pistols on him. >> here didn't use them. >> and he wouldn't have used them. >> i can't buy this. this is sudafed, one of the many companies that make this particular ingredient which you can't buy legally in america. six-pack ets. that is illegal for me to buy in wal-mart. i can buy an ar 15 military assault rifle and then as we saw with the shooter in aurora going at 6,000 rounds of ammunition from the internet and blow up a movie theater.

do you think that's right? >> we can talk drug laws another time. laws that are calibrated to solve the problem, if you think that the problem is only assault rifles. >> which guns would you remove? >> fully automatic weapons would be a good start. >> you wouldn't remove any semi automatics at all? >> no, that means one bullet comes on the e out at a time. >> do you understand how an ar 15 performs when modified? >> i saw it in the north hollywood shootout. it was illegal and people did it anyway. we are not able to stop people from coming illegally into this country over the southern border into places like california where i live normally. you would be hard pressed to stop guns from coming across that border illegally has well. >> would you want every american to have an ar 15? >> no. >> who would you stop? >> mental illness and i would require that people who have

somebody with a criminal background and mental illness keep it locked up and safe. >> what are about the background checks. 40% of all gun sales are not covered by background checks. >> i believe in background checks for everybody. >> there should be a database? >> if it's not public. i don't like the journal news and allows gun targets on particular homes. >> they are not prepared to entertain any kind of new gun restrictions. what did you think of that? >> what's astonishing is the left attack on nra. they are an enter group. the left likes to talk about violent video games, for example. >> stop frameing it as left or right. i don't vote either way. >> you tend to be more to the left. >> the nra as you know are active and well funded and a powerful body. >> i want to finish the point and then you can stop. the point that i'm making is

there is a lot of talk about a lot of people about video game violence. i haven't seen david gregory saying it's the broad interpretation of the first amendment that is responsible, but people are bringing on the nra and saying it's the second amendment that are responsible. if you want legislation passed, talk to the legislators. don't go to the nra. >> here's what the nra and people do. >> don't lump me in with alex jones. >> after each massacre, all the gun rights supporters come out and they basically instill fear and say if everyone in the movie theater had been armed and everyone at the school were armed, it wouldn't have happened. here's what happens. gun sales and ammunition sales rocket. >> don't pass the buck, piers. >> does that happen? >> the reason people are buying a lot of guns is people on the left are talking very much about banning guns. a lot of people are saying if i'm not going to have the right to purchase a weapon in two

months, i will buy it now. >> why did ronald reagan want them removed? >> i don't know. >> you liked reagan? >> i like him, but i don't agree on everything. he agreed on the progressive tax rate. >> did you agree about assault weapons? >> i will believe what you are saying, sure. i don't know what his position was. >> let me read the letter. this was what he penned along with the presidents. while we recognize the assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove we can dry up the supply making them less accessible to criminals and we urge you to listen to the american public and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons. that was ronald reagan. >> so? >> you keep framing to the left and the right. i'm putting it to you. one of the great right wing presidents of modern times agreed with me. >> so? >> it's not left or right, is

it? unless you frame it in that way. the way that the nra through the 80s and 90s are deliberately trying to frame it as a left wing attack on the american constitution and the second amendment what you tried to do. you brandish your book. >> that's the constitution of the united states. the founding document. >> i have been debating that for a long time. i know the second amendment. what i haven't heard is one coherent reason why any civilian needs an ar 15 military style assault weapon. tell me why you need one. >> i told you why the general population of america -- >> why do thigh need them? >> the possibility of resistance to tyranny. it may not be a resistance. >> where would it come from. >> they go tyranical. >> do you know how absurd you are. >> you are absurd and stupid. >> i didn't come in here and

accuse you of standing on the graves of dead children. >> you are the one who is doing it. >> that's bullying. >> i call it punching back twice as hard. >> that's what i call bullying. >> this is astonishing. for weeks you have been saying anyone who disagrees with your position is absurd and id lotic and doesn't care about the kids. when i say that's a bully tactic. that's absurd and ridiculous. >> let me ask you again. what is the point of a civilian having the ar 15 assault weapon? >> many of them are ex-military. i have military friends and i don't have a problem with colin powell. >> it depends on the civilian? forget criminals and mentally ill person. an average citizen, why do they need one? >> to protect against government tir 18. it remains the purpose of the second amendment now and

pretending that governments have never gone usurpatious. >> you believe they will turn on and you you need an ar 15 to challenge them? >> they may not turn on me and my children, but the fact is this. history is recomplete with democracies going tehran cal. it happened in france and spain and italy and japan. >> the reason we cannot remove the weapons is because the threat of your own government turning on you? >> yes. it is because they are counter bailing rights and responsibilities. >> you made your position you made your point crystal clear. people are not stupid. they can make up their own minds. an amazing young man survived a deadly school shooting and wants to tell the people of newtown.

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. breaking news on the aurora massacre. after days of testimony, the prosecution proved their case and holmes will go to trial for the shooting rampage that killed 12 people and wounded 60 others. he is expected to be formally arraigned. ten shots rang out in the cafeteria. one of the students wounded is nick. welcome to you. you were left paralyze and shot times and you are in a wheelchair at 18 years old now. what are your feelings about this debate? you heard the arguments. >> i am just an 18-year-old kid. i realize that, but i have an opinion and what i'm going to

say is something needs to be done. kids go to school and they don't chee choose to go to school and they are not protected. i obviously was not. this is because we need stricter gun laws really. >> when you hear my last guest who says look, this is the constitution of the united states and it entitles us to have these weapons. >> the second amendment, i fully support it. but fully automatic weapons like you said, they are unneeded. what would you need a fully automatic weapon for. >> or the semi automatic weapons that behave like a machine gun when modified. it wasn't used in your particular instance, the reality

is when they are used at a movie theater or elementary school, they cause carnage and that is the argument. >> right. whether it's semi automatic or fully automatic. my opinion is something needs to happen. it really does. >> your hearts must have gone out to the families involved in sandy hook and it must brought back awful memories. your life had been turned upside down on what happened to you. what advice can you give them? >> hang in there. i have a friend whose name is danny. he didn't get shot, but he is a survivor because he has the mental picture of being there. it's just really sad because he is such a good kid and he just hangs in there.

you got it. you have to just break away from what happened and get some help and do whatever you can. >> you have a friend who is say dive who was left paralyzed by an accident diving. you drew great strength from that? is that important to find other people. have you thought about going up to sandy hook? >> i would love to go to sandy hook. whether it's me being paralyzed or me finding other people who were in a school shooting, it helped me a lot. just to heal. ment mentally. it was good therapy. probably the best therapy i had is having other people that went through the same thing i have. whether it's a spinal cord injury or a school shooting. >> i have seen a lot of people on twitter and facebook about

this debate and there is a lot of emotion on both sides leading the call of enough is enough. i get a feeling that a younger generation is not as entrenched about views of everyone should have any guns they like. perhaps their parents's generation and so on. what do your friends and people that you know think of your age group? >> they feel that something does need to be done. but what? what can we do? in our case it wasn't a semi automatic or fully automatic. it was, i'm sorry. what can be done? we have a cop in our high school now. that's there all day. what else can be done? something has to be done with the guns that already have been

purchase. i feel there need to be stronger background checks and family need to be checked before purchasing a weapon of any type. >> you have to know who has the guns. that should have been the first point. too many guns removed more obviously. it is unsettling to me that i can't buy six-pack ets of pain killers, but i can buy an ar 15. i don't think that is ever going to help a society. >> i also feel that guns need to be locked up. locked up at all times. most of what i feel is guns that have been taken. it's not guns that were legally bought or they were legally bought, but they need to be locked up. >> you are an inspiration. it's amazing that you have got the confidence you have now and the positivity about your future life and i wish you the best

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>> such a polarizing issue. i do try and talk about this, but the way they deliver them sometimes very insensitive. what is your view of guns generally? >> i think the first issue for

me is what's really happening in our culture. what's beautiful is as painful as this is, human beings can change because there is an opportunity or because they are at a threshold. america is at a threshold. the stacking of these brutal effects pushed us to a point where gun owners say something has to be done. that's creating an environment where change can occur. besides the discussions about the how is for us to look at each other, i have friends on both sides of the issue, good friends and it's the ability for us to get them to see listen, everyone has pure intent and want the same thing. that young man that was on earlier, obviously gabby and mark and yourself, we want to make sure our kissed are save and our family and husbands and wives and mothers and fathers are safe and people are respected. we have forgotten that and if you put your fist out and i push on you, what happens? 90% of people push back.

the more we polarize, the harder it is to create change. the most important thing is for us to be able to enter the other person's world and say i know the intent is pure. the difference is how to do it. what is encouraging is the vice president today saying look, we are truly going to hear from every faction and look at the solutions. if we demonize, we will be having this discussion years from now. we have to step out of it. >> with my guest, mr. shapiro, the problem is if you try to talk about gun control with those who don't believe in it, they only give out any weapons, they try to frame it as you want to take all our guns and infringe my rights. that's not what i or mark kelly or joe biden or barack obama wants to do. not what any sensible wants to do. you talk about the demonizing, the argument gets framed and makes you look like you are being unpatriotic if you question it.

>> yes. there is a martial art and most are about breaking the other person. what's beautiful about the art of aikido is someone's attack is an energy that you welcome. instead of hurting them, you redirect them. it's a beautiful art. that's what we are not doing on the economy or guns or any other part. we are more and more polarized. there is a solution. i watched you here. you took a lot more in with the idea that you are stepping on graves which anyone would, but it was different for yourself when you are saying you are wrong. it makes it hard. >> listen, i'm trying to be fair-minded. >> i can see that. >> what are i find hard is when i'm categorized as being a ragy lefty who hates the constitution. i totally respect and admire the constitution and the second amendment and the americans's rights to defend themselves at home. he couldn't give me one. it's a coherent argument for why

a civilian needs one of the assault weapons. i don't think anybody does. you have to make a stand somewhere and you have to start somewhere and the logical place to start given the automatic weapons is you go to the semi automatic weapons. in an ideal world i would have all guns gone. this is not my country and i respect the fact that most americans wouldn't wear that kind of argument. that's why i feel angry when i'm being categorized in a way that i think is wrong. >> i agree with you and i thought it was unfair what he said. i'm not saying that to blow smoke in your direction. we are passion ead and both sides tend to do this. what we have to do is create space to say where are we aligned? there has to be discussion on where we agree. we agree on protecting our kids and respect. what are waying we can do that. we may differ on the decisions, but we don't have to make the person wrong. that i want to deport you or

that you are wrong doesn't work. there is an issue i haven't heard. we will not eliminate guns in this country. there 200 million of them. people are still not noticing who is creating this havoc. the who. not just mentally ill, but young males. how many young females have done this? >> almost all are young males. >> even throughout history. young males get filled with testosterone and when they have strong emotions, no one taught them, all cultures had a transition from being a child to being an adult and that transition is how to use power responsibly so you protect and care. the military for hundreds of years show people highway to ease them. >> there lots of components. video games and hollywood movie skp s and in the end, they are all the eggs and the catalyst of the killings is the gun. it's good to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> we have a one of hour special

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